I was forwarded this from the St. John’s newsletter. I couldn’t think of a better way to spend a couple of minutes today:
There is a movement afoot to convince Trader Joe’s that a downtown Youngstown store should be their next new site.
Contact Trader Joe’s and make a Location Request.
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Tyler is a Youngstown technology consultant.
He and Jaci live in a historic 1927 home on
beautiful 5th Avenue with their two children.
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35 Comments
I heard about this. I hope it happens. I visit the Trader Joes in Cleveland quite often. It is an awesome store.
Alicia
There are already Aldi locations in the Mahoning Valley. Plus, Trader Joe’s image is of moving into places which are already gentrified, and not being the driving force of the gentrification.
I never had a great impression of Aldi’s. Maybe it’s just me.
I have been thinking about this for sometime. How do we get the masses to submit location requests? I think there is plenty of untapped demand.
Done.
Ummm, if you are comparing Aldi’s to Trader Joe’s, you have not been in a Trader Joe’s. Trader Joe’s price point may not sell in a downtown Youngstown market, it can be a little pricey. It would be nice to see one on the West Side, or somewhere outside the suburbs. However if people can afford the Realty Tower Apartments, they should put the Trader Joe’s in the first floor of that.
You’re right, Scott, but I think it’s of a piece with the Rosetta Stone and Overture and Imbibe, etc. There’s no reason something at the level of Trader Joe’s could not only succeed with Youngstown residents but attract visitors from the suburbs. It’s time to turn the equation around. We’re not shopping in the burbs anymore, we’re bringing them to us.
While I agree VERY MUCH that Youngstown needs to start getting the necessities for locals. That includes a grocery store, but it does not necessarily have to be Trader Joes. I have never even heard of Trader Joes until now and, according to the locations on their site, they do not have any significant presence in the state or greater area. YSU had a plan to make a small business center slash strip mall on the outskirts of campus with the intent to get a nearby grocery store for locals and students. Unfortunately I have heard nothing for a few years as the administration has gone gaga over building new college buildings. I fear that plan may fade into oblivion.
Anonymous #2 here. I suppose this entire post will be discredited with this audience because I am less than 100% positive about the whole idea. Feel free to respond without reading the entire thing, or just ignore a dissenting view completely.
If “the movement” is going to shoot for the stars, why not demand an Ikea?
Really, if “the movement” was truly concerned about helping the area as a whole with a grocery store in downtown the more effective path would be more effective to petition your local Sparkle Markets or Rulli Brothers. Considering how small some Trader Joe’s location can be, having one of the two or even a Nemenz IGA instead might actually create a situation where there can be one stop grocery shopping.
We all know that a Trader Joe’s petition is a much sexier dream than Sparkle/Rulli Bros./Nemenz because Trader Joe’s targets a more affluent clientele. Thus, this petition is truly about a small group of people attempting to look busy on the small chance they hit the jackpot and win their own near private grocery store. If the petition fails, the fate it will most likely meet, then “at least we tried” and “it failed only because they do not understand what the Valley has to offer”. If the Trader Joe’s actually moves into town, then the group can claim credit for “creating change” with none of their own money down. “The movement” will get a grocery store nearly all to themselves while the rest of the slobs continue shop at such pedestrian grocery stores like Giant Eagle.
Now, as far as the the Aldi and Trader Joe’s connection I wrote about earlier, basic research sources will show the ownership of various companies is deeper than the sign on the front of the store. Aldi Nord (North) owns Trader Joe’s. Aldi Sud (South) operates the Aldi stores in America which are scoffed at for being lower class. An examination of sizable number, though certainly not all, of the “brand name generic” products for sale at a Trader Joe’s will show that those products were produced by none other than Aldi.
Wow! There is some great, informed discussion going on here.
I’ve been thinking about the points made by Anonymous 2, and while I don’t necessarily agree that the intentions behind the Trader Joe’s movement are elitist, I think he/she makes some valid points. First of all, I’ve gotten this “tell Trader Joe’s to pick us” plea in my email every few months for the past two years. At this point, I’m thinking “meh, Trader Joe’s.”
I think there is some real merit to petitioning those who are already invented locally, who have already proven that they are in the area to stay.
*invested* locally. Forgive the early morning editing skills (or lack of).
I’d be more inclined to take Anonymous at face value if s/he weren’t so, well… anonymous. As for Trader Joe’s, I was kinda hoping somebody knew them to be particularily receptive to location requests. I’m just hoping for a grocery of any type.
Rulli would be great, though they just opened a new location. I imagine they’ll need a while to recoup. I don’t have any inside info on Sparkle, which would be great, except that I know the Union Station store isn’t exactly thriving.
The grocery chains in the best shape right now are ones with their own product line. I know Trader Joe’s has this, but honestly I never spent much time there when we had one in Tucson.
So, to sum up, I support any and all efforts to get any grocery downtown. If someone starts a campaign to get an Aldi’s downtown, I’ll blog about that, too.
Well, my brilliant friend and award-winning local author Chris says that sometimes we have to “put on our masks to tell the truth.” Anonymity doesn’t bother me.
I went to Trader Joe’s and said “please come to Youngstown’ every time someone asked me to, and I hope it works. I’m glad you blogged about it, Tyler. Maybe the squeaky wheel will get the oil, and at least it’s some kind of concrete action. And the food is great.
I just think that anonymous raised an interesting new point about solving our own problems and changing our own mindset rather than waiting to be rescued by an outside entity, an approach that hasn’t worked for us in the past (think Saturn). Kirk Noden from the Wean Foundation spoke to this point at the 2008 Northside Interfaith Partnership’s MLK observance, and it’s been in my context ever since.
Good stuff, Tyler. I’d love it if my blog got this kind of dialogue going.
We absolutely need to take charge and drive things forward ourselves. And no grocery store will do that!!
I’m working on something along those lines and hope to have news soon.
People! What happened to the outcry for a neat grocery store downtown? Any action? or even inaction? anything?
The answer downtown maybe be a bulkfood store, they are starting up in many areas. The concept is a proven one and can be started up very reasonably, I know, my wife and I own one in Poland Village. White house farms and the Dutch cupboard are examples of bulkfood nearby. Check this supplier out dutchvalleyfoods.com , this industry is growing and competes very well against big block supermarkets.
In fact, I will be willing to help with a project like this, if someone really wants to make YTown grow.
Hi Ron,
I’m in North Carolina every other week, and often I’m in Charlotte – which just got its second Trader Joe’s this past year. Despite their appearance as a “neighborhood” store, they are, in fact, very high volume stores, which, I’m told by their managers, need a much larger population base than we have here. (because I asked if they would come to a town the size of Youngstown)
Is a downtown grocery store really a necessity in Youngstown? Perhaps a convenience store, for those who work there – but a full blown grocery store would need a huge space, and – dare I say it? – parking! for a large number of cars. And I wonder just who would travel downtown to grocery shop, if they didn’t already live there? There are lots of choices already in place.
Even if all the buildings in the downtown area were full of residents, I question whether there’d be enough to support a grocery store.
Now, if your desire is just for the variety that Trader Joe’s offers, there could be an answer for that. Trader Joe’s is owned by Theo Albrecht, who owns Aldi’s – and according to the internet, some of the Trader Joe branded items are being sold in the European Aldi stores. It might be an easier sell to the company, to ask them to feature some of the Trader Joe products in the local Aldi stores. (which, to my way of thinking, already offer some very interesting items) rather than ask them to open a store in the area.
Margaret,
I’m impressed, you seem to have done research on this. I agree, a full scale grocery store will not go in downtown. I have been thinking and studying for a few years about how a “bulkfood” store might fair. A bulkfood store is not what it might imply, rather it is a basic country store, general store, which the Amish had to start for the lack of any store in their communities. It since has grown as you can see by “whitehouse Farms” and the “Dutch Cupboard”, both of these stores are supplied by the same supplier of “The Village Pantry” (our store in Poland).
I strongly believe this type of general store can work in YTown and the best part of it would be the unique business model and the relatively small risk.
Anyway, you almost would have to exit cyberspace and physically review an operation in business. I’m hoping this conversation can be a stimulus to actually creating “mortars and brick” in YTown. I only have been blogging recently to see if stimulating conversation and thought in local cyberspace can actually lead to something tangible. I’m beginning to believe that all this may exist for escape rather than facing and changing reality.
Hi Ron, I’ve been to White House farms often enough to know that it’s a lovely store, and a treat to shop there, but not a place I would go to on a regular basis. And a similar shop, downtown, would probably not see much business from me, either. Not because of anything negative about the store – but because I am the type of shopper who prefers decent quality food staples offered at a low price over higher end merchandise. I am not ashamed to say that I’m exactly the type of customer that Aldi’s caters to. From time to time, I’ll treat myself to something nice from White House farms, but if they had to depend on people like me to survive, they’d be long out of business already!
That said, the idea of a “general” store downtown, might work, if the product line met the needs of the average worker downtown. A store that could provide the basics for an evening meal to a secretary who’s been too busy to get her weekly shopping done and is facing an empty fridge at home; a store that could sell a bottle of wine to a banker who’s joining friends for dinner right after work; a store that could offer coffee and pastries in the morning, sandwiches and snacks during the day, and a bottle of aspirin to ease the headache before the drive home. You get the idea.
But the store would have to plan on making its money largely during the hours that workers were in the downtown area – because they would be its primary customers. And the product line would have to be tailored to them. This isn’t unique to Youngstown, of course. Most inner cities fade at the end of the day. Even Charlotte – which has a lare number of people living uptown – sees business die off at the end of the business day. (except for the bars and restaurants)
Don’t give up on the online blogging – change takes time.
Hi Margaret,
You are very informative, I’m inspired that once in awhile I see intelligencia pop up in these blogs. Whether it is your vocation or not, I always say a secretary really runs an entity and not the figurehead.
Yes, convenience and price point is required and that is what bulkfoods is about. Sorry, Whitehouse farms for the most part is not a bargain driven store. My referal is their bulkfood line; bulkfood is a throwback to the old general store concept wherein let’s say flour is bought in a fifty pound bag and repacked by the retail store. weighed, labelled and shelved with the savings going to the consumer. The product line of bulkfood is of high quality and compete very well with identical product offered by chains.
You have correctly identified the traits of an urban worker and here is a scenario also of how it can work. A downtown worker realizes they need provisions on their way home. On their way to the parking lot they stop at the general store and they already know what the store stocks. The shopper picks up a bag of raw sugar, cumin, kosher salt,tapioca,steel cut oats,homemade pumpkin butter,powdered vanilla,organic coconut oil, sprinkles and a treat of chocolate covered cherries which cost $15.78 a pound everywhere else, but $7.59 a pound at a bulkfood store, this completes her grocery list. The YSU student employee knows that her parked car is at a distance and reminds the customer to pick up her car and pull up to the front of the store with a beep of her horn and he will again carry her grocery bags to her car. The customer drives home and smiles while thinking she does not have to make a stop in a mundane big box this time.
You see bulkfood stores compete by buying the same product in bulk and repacking into sizes required by the end user with the savings enabling the store to compete well. Eliminating the cost of packaging also creates a significant margin. Please check out dutchvalleyfoods.com and if in Poland visit The Village Pantry and you really can see how this business model just might be the answer for what this blog excited.
Lastly, I was taught by a Korean war and Vietnam veteran, my father, that time is gold and the enemy of progress is time. I can only remember my musician friend, Bob Fitzer, he may not have said it, but maybe he fought injustice so hard because he new time was gold.
Hi Ron,
I understand your concept of the bulk food store – and it strikes me as a good one for communities like Poland, Canfield, perhaps Boardman. But I would suspect that downtown might be a slightly different story – and you may want to re-visit the concept.
I am a self employed businesswoman, normally very busy (but taking a couple of days rest right now, which is why I have time to blog!) with little time for (or interest in) cooking.(I also don’t particularly care about eating very much.) There wasn’t one item on your list that I would ever consider buying. Now, I don’t expect everyone’s taste to be the same as mine. But, I would strongly advise looking at the demographic makeup of the people who work downtown.
There are some professionals, to be sure – but for every one of them, there are probably 20 or more clerical-level workers. And I suspect that most of these people are not the sort to purchase things like raw sugar, or steel cut oats, or organic coconut oil. Almost everything on your list is, to a working class background, a luxury item. Please don’t think I’m disparaging these things – I’m not. I just don’t think this type of product line would work well downtown – at least, not if it’s the main line of the store.
Perhaps what we need is more discussion of the nature of people in this area. Youngstown has been, and still is, largely a provincial working class community. And the people here, even if they’ve moved into the professional classes through education, still mostly think and behave in working class ways. This is not a bad thing – but it needs to be understood, if anyone is going to sell to them.
When I mentioned the secretary needing supper on her way home, I’m thinking about the sort of frozen food entrees that Trader Joe’s carries. And milk, eggs, and bread, lunch meat, maybe salad makings, etc. A successful wine selection would offer wines that a professional could take to a party without embarrassment, but would still be limited enough to not overwhelm and intimidate. (I talk to various merchandisers in places like Giant Eagle – and this is a difficulty they face – the consumer sees too many choices, and they begin to resent their own lack of knowledge – and they often walk away without purchasing anything)
Your idea of a pickup zone is a good one – but keep in mind that such a service would require the space to do it properly – and downtown traffic needs to be taken into consideration. And there is the further thought that once a person is in their car, you’ve lost them as a downtown shopper – in the car, it’s just as easy for them to stop at a suburban strip plaza on the way home. Once in their car, a downtown worker wants to head out of, not through, downtown. So if you want a pickup zone, it would be best to locate this market at one of the “ends” of the downtown area. In the middle, the traffic would cause inconvenience for the customer.
Please know that I’m not trying to discourage the idea of a market downtown! But so many business are tried and fail around here – and I think it’s largely because no one studies the market carefully enough. Too many people (everywhere – not just here) start up businesses thinking only about the product or service they want to offer – but never looking at whether the market wants that service or product. And the sad part of this is that the actual market that does exist, goes unserved. And business opportunities are lost.
Hi Margaret,
What type of business do you have? I may patronize it.
The Amish are working class and provincial. I just had a professor’s wife come into the store and buy organic rolled oats, sprinkles, a fruit drink and chili powder. I’m spread to thin to start another business downtown, I’m just hoping some young entrepreneur with guts might come forward. Sadly, unlike when I was younger, I do not see much of this trait anymore.
Hi Ron,
I am a wholesale supplier of tablewares, so I don’t deal with the public. But thanks for the thought!
Keep up thinking new ideas – it will pay off eventually.
P.S. sometime we should have a conversation about the Amish – I wouldn’t classify them as working class at all – they take their work as a form of vocation. But that’s a discussion for another time.
And, yes, I recognize the irony of someone who doesn’t care about food being in the tablewares business!
so, henry nemenz is being browbeaten into closing his supermarkets in the area, but we are pulling for a giant non-union mega-market to come into an economically depressed area and charge four bucks for a box of spaghetti?
like trader joes, nemenz IGA was a non-union store that paid a decent wage and offered other incentives and bonuses to employees. but, since it was non-union, it was run out of town. will the grocers unions stand for a trader joes to come into town? who’s to say that they wouldn’t picket the store? we have seen how deep old notions of union pride run in this town; they ran nemenz out of business.
college kids with $50,000 in debt and retirees being stripped of their benefits are really worried about the coolness factor of their markets. i’m not saying we should settle for less, but there is no reason to further ‘big box’ our town just so we can be like ‘the big city.’
we have a great supply of fresh produce and locally grown/made food at many markets in our area. aside from anchovy paste, there has never been any food or produce i have not been able to find in local markets. i wouldn’t want trader joes to put more local grocers out of business just so i can have anchovy paste.
why don’t we instead pull for nemenz to open a new IGA downtown? he’s local, and has done a lot for our community. or does it not have enough indie cred to be part of our ‘youngstown renaissance?’ maybe if he sells endives and peruvian coffee beans, that would help?
Hello Sarah,
I like your initiative and ideas. First comes dreams, then vision and if one follows thru with implementation, we then have progress. I believe in this blog, we are about to enter the “vision” phase, can you take us all the way thru to implementation?
I’m sorry, but you may have already noticed that what you may find in this world of blogging, is that most of it is dreaming and decrying. We may however, made progress in isolating the cause of our community’s failures.
Hi Sarah and Ron,
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that we bring in another market to wipe out local grocers – Ron, I believe you would just like to see an interesting grocery store downtown – and I don’t disagree that some sort of grocery store would be helpful to people there. There just needs to be some serious study on what people downtown need and want in a market there.
Sarah, I have been as irritated by the union actions against Nemenz as much as you seem to be – but I also notice that those actions aren’t really having much effect. I know Henry Nemenz claimed the union picketing was the reason for closing the Hubbard store, but I’m not entirely sure I believe that. The store in question rarely had many cars in its parking lot, and I suspect that it was a poor performer to begin with. Not much seems to survive and do well in that location. And if you compare it with his store over in Struthers, you have to wonder – that store has the pickets much closer to the actual building, and they don’t seem to be stopping anybody from going in there – in fact, the Struthers store is always hopping! Henry has 17 Save-A-Lot stores, with multi-million dollar plans to re-build the one in Wellsville into a store, restaurant and bar. So, while I have absolutely no sympathy for the union, I don’t buy the argument that they ran him out. Nobody closes a profitable store just because some people stand out front with signs. The Marc’s chain is also being picketed by the same union – and it isn’t affecting them one bit.
Ron, I have one tiny bone to pick with you (in a nice way!) I don’t agree that this community has failed. This city is changing – that is not the same thing as failing. Change takes a very long time, and it rarely takes the form we would like it to. There are definitely things within the community that have failed – our school system, for example. But there is much positive change going on, as well – the thing is, most people don’t see it, because they don’t look for it. Or they’re too busy trying to keep things the way they were. There are many entrepreneurs out there – young and not so young – and more will come, I’m sure. But you don’t necessarily hear about them, because they’re not interested in much other than running their enterprises. This county has lots of self-employed people, essentially running their own businesses – 13,999 according to the 2006 census. The same census numbers show 6275 private, non-farm establishments.
So don’t get discouraged – there are entrepreneurs out there – and they will find the city soon enough.
And Sarah, have you tried Jimmy’s for your anchovy paste? I can’t believe they wouldn’t have it!
While I have enjoyed shopping at Trader Joe’s in California and Oregon I never considered it an acceptable place to to all of my grocery shopping as there are just too many things they don’t have. (BTW out there Trader Joe’s is a bargain store much cheaper than Safeway, Giant Eagle is actually nicer than most Safeway stores)
I also think that a store that doesn’t survey the needs of those who are already downtown and carry those items in addition to any gourmet products would be doomed to failure.
I like the idea of the Amish/Bulk food/Organic store, but I think it would need to go further and carry a line of (generic) processed foods for those that can’t/won’t cook from scratch and a full service deli prepared foods station similar to Whole Foods but more everyday items.
So an example of a successful store doing just that is http://www.berkeleybowl.com a food coop gone big time, it is wholly owned by it’s employees.
Now to be more realistic a place to start might be this example http://www.peoples.coop from Portland Oregon that I shopped at for a few years when I lived there.
Just thought I would share my experiences from the West Coast.
Howard,
It’s refreshing to hear about your experience on the west coast. We too secured our idea for a bulkfood store six years ago while visiting successful areas outside of YTown. Even though we owned a building downtown, we received more support in placing the store in Poland.
Sadly, YTown seems to lack entrepreneurs who will go out and try new ideas. Abraham Lincoln who went bankrupt numerous times before he became a great president once said to his administration; “do something, you may fall, you get up again, but do something”.
You may have noticed that all you read in these blogs are comments and more reasons why not to try something than actually taking the first step.
Ron, I’m always grateful for people who read the blog and especially those who take time to leave a comment. But your constant refrain of “Sadly, YTown seems to lack entrepreneurs who will go out and try new ideas.” is tiresome.
The pace of progress may not be as speedy as one would like, but I meet entrepreneurs every week who are moving business forward in the Valley. The YBI alone is full of ideas, and there are many more out there. The Federal Building just sold to a new developer, and they are exploring every option for the space.
I’m very happy for whatever success you have with shrimp and with your other efforts, and I sincerely wish you all the best. But, please spare us the continued laments, because candidly all I hear is a self-promotion of your brilliance and daring in the face of the lameness of the rest of us. I’m not buying it.
Tyler,
Allright, forgive me if I offended you.
I am really trying to understand the purpose of blogging which is a phenomenon for us all. When I took time to enter this world, I gravitated to what venue might be a productive tool to network and unite here in YTown to make things happen.
First, let me dispel what you hear as self-promoting, when you put a picture of your house online, to me that is not self-promoting, you were merely trying to reinforce that buying and living in YTown can be a good thing. My throwing out projects of mine and my investors, is reinforcing that things can work in YTown if we try. Certainly if I wanted to self-aggrandize, I could have put my name on the Peterson Park, The Yellow Creek Theatre, Poland’s little amphitheatre, etc.
Look, you created “Youngstown Renaissance”, I thought this would be a great vehicle to rally our community in YTown, like we did in Poland to invest and create in the community. Except for five years in the submarine office in Virginia, I have been a businessman all my life. Like older buisinessmen who helped me along, I am merely trying to continue the cycle. Now, I am not perfect by far and made many mistakes thru life but I was never known to not produce.
Your generation needs all the help it can get for what is in store for us in the future economic times. I really was hoping that “Youngstown Renaissance” could be what us in the business world could use as a think tank and a center of networking to incubate an idea to fruition. In the business world, when I threw out a Youngstown Shrimp Fest, business people rallied behind the idea. It is perplexing to me that in cyberworld, no support for a community event, which could be big for us all.
Anyway, with due respect, maybe I’m expecting to much and I am cognizant of “0 comments” most blogs have that tells me no one in cyberland really cares.
I think you missed what I actually said. I have no problem with self promotion. It’s a necessary activity of entrepreneurship. I dislike when it’s at the expense of others, such as when you repeatedly suggest there are no other entrepreneurs here contributing to progress.
Fair enough and that I apologized for.
I really would like to get back to what was the subject here, Trader Joe’s.
The Dunkin Donuts suggestion maybe a possibility. And I am willing to help with this. As I said previously, and I disclose that I have an interest in land that we can offer the owner of the franchise rights in YTown. Can we collectively approach DD to see if they may have an interest in coming to YTown?
You mentioned awhile back that you have a project cooking, if this does conflict with a DD, we won’t proceed. I realize that research must be done but in my experience, the first step is to check if there is an interest. Now I can pick up the phone and invite Lewis realty in to find this out, but truthfully, I would like to see a “Youngstown Renaissance” project take the lead if willing.
Just to clarify, the point I was trying to make by sharing my experience was that ‘if you really want something to happen, make it happen yourself’. I don’t think we should be waiting around for some corporation to decide when Youngstown is ready for their idea of a store. What I think needs to happen is for those of us who are invested in Youngstown and want to make it a better place should take the initiative and make things happen ourselves.
If you look closely at the website for http://www.peoples.coop in Portland you will find that this is exactly what happened, the community wanted a store that no corporation would build so they got together pooled their money, skills, and resources and proceeded to make it happen themselves.
I don’t know about the rest of you but if I had money invested into a project like that (yes I would be willing) I would shop there as much as possible and encourage others to do the same.
I understand that with the economy the way it is that we can’t be as progressive as Berkeley and ban or boycott all corporate stores or restaurants, but likewise we can’t expect them to come in and rescue us either. We need to make things happen downtown and then they might consider coming in to get a share of the action.
Howard,
Well said, I’m ready to pool money,skill and resources to make something happen downtown. So now there are two of us, any others?
Yesterday, I got a visit from our bulkfood distributor and he said in Knoxville there is a downtown bulk and whole food store that has been very successful. Dutchvalleyfoods.com will go as far as to do the research for us if YTown will work.