Will Blog for Coffee
Personal — Posted on October 23, 2009 at 6:02 amAn Open Letter to West Federal Street Restaurants
Dear Restaurants:
When I come downtown in the morning, I want to grab a coffee. It would be even better if it were accompanied by a gigantic, blueberry muffin with sweet cinnamon-sugar crumbles on top. As you may know, there are places in the country where you can find such a thing downtown at 7 or 8 in the morning. Why aren’t you there to serve me some? I’ll even splurge for a Cafe Mocha on occasion, especially if you’ll top it with some whipped cream and chocolate flakes. I’m embarrassed to say it, but I’m actually getting a little worked up just writing this. It’s that important.
Oh, I know what you’ll say. You tried to open early in the morning, but no one was there to make it worth your while. Hey, I understand. You’re doing the lunch and dinner thing, and that’s more reliable. I get it. But I think you’re missing an opportunity. I know the facts so far haven’t supported that, but think about it.
Lunch and dinner are more proven commodities downtown. People are in that habit. So, doing lunch or dinner somewhere else is just a matter of where, not when. Morning coffee and pastries is a new deal. You’ve got to introduce that habit to downtown before it will take off.
Why not take a carafe of your hot coffee and a handful of baked goods to a new business every week. Tell them about yourself and ask them to come try it out. Better yet, sell them on a service, where you’ll bring them the hot beverages and pastries on a daily basis for a monthly or bi-monthly fee. Once you’ve got them hooked at the start of the day, your name might be the one that pops into their head around lunch time.
I know it takes a bit of creativity and patience, but just because you were technically open for morning hours and people didn’t show up doesn’t mean they won’t. West Federal Street alone has all the following within a one-block radius: First National Tower, Federal Court of Appeals, Turning Technologies, Youngstown Business Incubator, County Services Buildings, Huntington Bank Building, City Hall, 20 West Federal Plaza, and the list goes on. Surely that’s enough people to keep you hopping? You just have to do a little old-fashioned outreach marketing.
Please, give it some thought.
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44 Comments
Amen!
So one of my early morning rituals is to take my long-handled broom and dust pan to clean the street and sidewalk in front of our three properties…the Youngstown Business Incubator, the Taft Technology Center (Turning Technologies) and the Semple Building. I can’t tell you how many people I see carrying in their coffee and goodie bag from Dunkin’ Donuts, Starbuck’s, McDonald’s etc. to those three buildings alone.
There is an untapped market. But, come up with a solid plan to capture it and work that plan hard. If we can help, give me a call.
Not sure how far your willing to travel, but Winslow’s (when it actually opens) is supposed to be open for breakfast. I know they are supposed to have Cappuccino/Latte/Mocha/Coffee products and I’m sure their breakfast items should include a muffin or two.
Other than that, you may need to go to a fast food place.
Oops, forgot to say that Winslow’s is the little cafe in the back of the Butler Institute on Wick.
I’ve eaten at Winslow’s for lunch. Have they reopened yet?
No, sadly. They were supposed to open 3 different times now starting last month. There is no set date to open… suppose it’s just whenever we see the “GRAND [RE]OPENING” signs. Their menu is changing though because they fired the last management and Antone’s (Italian Restaurant) is now going to be running it.
I think The Beat is now offering breakfast of some kind. I’d probably have to walk up there. I’ve heard people complain about parking downtown, but while I’ve never had that problem, my nightmare is trying to park on Lincoln during school hours.
What time does Magic Mocha at 20 West Federal open? They are a coffee shop so it would make sense they would be open for the early morning crowd. The Bean Counter was always busy in the mornings when they were open.
That’s a fair point. I think they are open early enough. I was not impressed with their coffee, however.
Great idea about someone taking the coffee and pastries on the go to the different businesses. I think someone will get the idea. Many there will be a early morning breakfast place one day soon. T think people need to take chances in the downtown area. I worked there for 20 plus years and there was everything for us. My favorite dress shop was Tops and Bottoms and I never shopped anywhere else. Eventually there will be muffins, coffee, hot tea etc. Winslow which was at the Butler closed and now it’s Antones. I’m not sure they are open yet. There was a segment on one of the early local TV show about Antones coming into the Butler.
I agree, someone needs to take chances, why not any of you? Isn’t it often said, you find a need and then supply it?
I already found a need and am supplying it, thanks.
Great! Coffee and pastries on the go to different businesses? Details and I’ll promote.
Is Plaza Donuts still downtown? If so, how is their morning traffic? And if they’re not still there, has anyone asked them why? Since I don’t generally eat donuts, I don’t go into their shops, but if they’re downtown, and they heard that there was a market for upscale coffee drinks, they might be convinced to add some.
They’re still in the downtown WRTA. The donuts are as good as ever, but I’ve always found their coffee thin and bland
Margaret,
You stated previously that most entrepreneurs might be to busy running their businesses to live in the blog world, I agree.
If you or anyone here are serious about a business plan for Plaza Donuts, I can put you in touch with the Froomkins. Unfortunately, speaking with most of the restaurant owners downtown reveals not enough patronage from customers to survive. I suggest taking this conversation to them offline, at least they may generate some revenue.
I agree there’s a market for this, and it might be bigger than West Federal. I venture downtown from Canfield a few times a week, and settled into a nice routine this summer of decaf coffee and anise-flavored snacks at a new restaurant on West Federal. They were on the good side of OK.
Then this restaurant quit opening for breakfast. So now I’m back to Peaberry’s or Panera on 224, where I often see others do business there.
Any downtown coffee enterprise really ought to have (reliable and consistent) wi-fi, too.
Tyler, Do you think Plaza Donuts would be amenable to trying a few upscale selections? They’re already established – but like lots of businesses, may be stuck in a rut – donuts, and weak coffee to wash them down. I know their atmosphere may leave something to be desired, but if your primary objective is good coffee, they might be worth a shot. I wouldn’t just talk to the people in the shop, however – best to contact the management company.
And maybe everyone will boo and hiss, but I have to give a vote in favor of McDonald’s – I find their some of their new coffee offerings to be very good. (and the example of them going upscale would be a good argument for a local company like Plaza, to take a chance on better coffee.)
Indeed, breakfast is an entire market that could be tapped downtown. I’ve been a student at YSU for 6 years, and I seem to remember that The Hub restaurant (which served breakfast) was still open toward the end of Mayor McKelvey’s term.
One thing that downtown, and for that matter the area, needs is a non-chain breakfast place. I really dig the diner-style breakfast places, and I wish Y-town had one.
You could do worse than Cafe Cimmento. They open at 7 weekday mornings and serve gigantic pancakes as well as typical diner-style breakfast platters (eggs, meats, toast…) and what a friend and I call the “big egg sandwich”. The coffee is ok but not great, and the prices are very reasonable. It’s just not exactly in a convenient location for me to swing by, unless I was working right on Central Square.
Hi Ron,
I’m not personally interested in a business plan for Plaza Donuts – as I mentioned, I don’t actually eat donuts very often. I don’t often buy coffee out, for that matter. (my experience is that almost everyone makes their coffee too weak, using the drip method. I’ve been drinking perked coffee since I was 14, and like my coffee strong enough to, as my father used to say, “dance on”. )
I was simply suggesting Plaza as a possible source for decent coffee downtown – and if there is a market for upscale coffee here, they would be a logical company to approach. I’m not sure now would be a good time for an entirely new coffee shop to open downtown – if you read the advice being offered everywhere about what people trying to save should start cutting out of their personal budgets, almost the very first thing mentioned is always the morning cup of coffee purchased out.
That’s not to say there’s no market for this idea – but right now, it might make more sense for an established restaurant to add upscale coffee and pastries, rather than hope for a brand new outlet.
I would also add, that after first writing on here this morning, I went out to run errands – and passed by the bus station, to see the Plaza Donuts. They definitely need bigger signs, and more openness to the street – Had I not been looking for them, I’d not have known they were there. That can’t be helpful to their business.
And Tyler, I had forgotten that Cafe Cimmento was open for breakfast. You’re right – the food is pretty good, the prices reasonable.
Hi Margaret,
Well, since you offer the most constructive advise here in my view, and you seem to be genuine in pushing YTown to act, I will make this first announcement to you for digestion.
Lyndsey Hughes (Events Director), Demain Kitchen (councilman), Cafe Cimmento and the MVR restaurants, will sponsor the fist annual “Youngstown Shrimp Fest 2010″ , celebrating the harvest during the last week of September. More restaurants in downtown will be invited to participate. All these restaurants will serve their own recipe of fresh Youngstown shrimp with live jazz in the background.
Right now more shrimp ponds are being developed as we speak in the eastside to meet this new market. Tom Antonishak (top 50 sculpture USA) is designing the official logo for this event. We expect this new discovery that Youngstown grows a good shrimp will propel us all to value our land again, and city.
So, if blogging can stimulate progress, let’s see, spread the word and look for the formal announcement in the media soon.
And what did happen to the Hub Restaurant? That spot should be ideal for a diner style restaurant.
Sounds good, Ron. Good luck with it!
FYI Antones will open in the Butler Art museum, and I was told that given the demographic of college students, they will open early, and have breakfast all day. It will be atraditional from a typical Antones.
I also think that when VXI is up to full capacity, the need for another good coffee house will be there. I personally would like to see a Dunkin Donuts come in. Main Streets do well when there is a mix of national tenants and local tenants. When VXI is a two-shift operation, it will be easier to sell that idea.
Eric,
No wonder why the chamber picked you up, finally I see some vision here. Listen, your idea about Dunkin Donuts downtown has been an idea of some of my associates for awhile now. Here is how far we have expounded on that vision, we own a half acre on Fifth and Orchard place, across the street from the YSU police dept. The property is zoned commercial and has all the utilities available. The city purchased the parcels directly south of the our lots so more land is available. With your help, maybe we can make a little progress here. Again, when you return from China we can take this discussion offline.
Ron 330 707 9688
Hi Eric and Ron, I feel like the Grinch here – but if you check the corporate website of Dunkin Donuts, under the section about franchises, you’ll see that they already consider the Youngstown area to be “sold out”. Now, I don’t know if that means that someone in this area has already purchased the right to open a DD downtown, or if the stores already open are all they plan on opening. But they may not be an option at the moment.
I’m pleased Antone’s will open in the Butler soon, but, just like Cimmento’s – they’re not exactly conveniently located for someone working right downtown.
Years ago, when I worked in downtown Boston, there were a number of little kiosk-sized, hole in the wall coffee vendors, who served only basic coffee, and muffins. Perhaps a variation of this arrangement could work today, if there are appropriate spaces? For example, they would work well near the parking lots of the office spaces downtown – as most workers drive to work.
Margaret………….,
Please, you need to be more positive in life. don’t be like most in the Valley, look up not down. Enbrace it, don’t push it away, even if it fails, you can always get up again.
“Sold out” means someone already (looking up) purchased the rights for this area. This means the area is hot. If my memory serves me, we did approach the owner years ago, but they were to busy with building the new stores to look at downtown, maybe if we do our homework, they will come.
Hi Ron, No need to worry – I’m very positive – about life in general, and life here in Youngstown! As for Dunkin Donuts – as I said in my previous post, I don’t know exactly what they mean by sold out, but unless someone has already made plans to open a DD downtown (and maybe they have) then it looks like there isn’t a francise available from them. I do believe they’re going in up on Belmont Ave. in Liberty – and they have a number of stores already in the area.
But it’s not negative to look at the practical side of any potential business – and here’s a couple of numbers, right off the Dunkin Donuts corporate site, that anyone wishing to operate one of their franchises downtown would have to consider: Their startup fee ranges from $40,000 to $80,000. They expect a franchisee to have a minimum of $750,000 liquid assets to operate the business. That’s a lot of donuts to have to sell. They’re pretty blunt about it. If you don’t have this kind of cash, and if you don’t have the experience of running a store like theirs, they won’t consider your application.
Now, I don’t know the number of people who work downtown – what is it, do you know? 2,000? 5,000? Whatever that number is, that’s your traffic for any potential business. Just for the sake of argument, let’s say there’s 5,000 people working downtown, and trickling in from the University. And let’s assume that each person will stop once a week at a Dunkin Donut shop downtown, and that each will spend $2.50. That would bring in $12,500 for a week. But since these people only come downtown 5 days out of 7, that means the store would have to be doing $2500. per day. Does anyone know if the McDonalds up by the university even does that sort of daily volume? They might, but I question if a donut shop could.
I’m not trying to rain on your parade – but the reason so many things collapse around here is that some people do not do their research before jumping into what sounds like a great idea. They do not realistically consider the time, effort, and cash needed to make something succeed. They do not research the market, to see if their ideas are needed or wanted, and by how many. And they assume that because they know a few people, or even a lot of people who think an idea is good, that guarantees the idea will succeed. I’ve seen business start-ups around here creating their signs before they create their business plans.
This area offers unlimited potential. But it takes a lot of intelligent planning to go beyond potential. As I mentioned in another post, there are almost 14,000 self-employed business people in this county – so I know there are many people trying to make the most of what this area has to offer. And there may be someone out there who can figure out a good way to make great coffee available downtown. Tyler has set the idea in motion. It’s a fun one to think about.
Hi Margaret,
My wife says at times I can be a little patronizing and please do not think that I am being personal. It is just that I have been a promoter all my life and want our community to prosper because then we all prosper.
To stay on the coffee blog agenda, let me start with an old Hindu saying; “a heavy ladened camel travels slowly”. This conversation is basically a dream and it seems to be graduating into a vision. So how can we implement it? Let’s start by seeing how many camels we need to make this trip and if it can be done. The camels we need for the journey are:
1. The Dunkin Donut camel, this camel belongs to the DD franchise and it knows the journey. If this camel is willing to travel to YTown, it has the expertise and know how to secure the correct data, to conclude if it should travel and what to carry.
2. The location camel, in order for the property to be determined the correct destination of the DD camel, it must load itself with the information pertaining to the location ie, cost, utilities, zoning, phase one, site plans, financing, title, etc.
3. Promotion camel, this camel may already exist here. Eric is from the Chamber, all the conversation here maybe taken to the city leaders for endorsement. Tyler can blog this vision all over Vindy.com. Jim Cossler was even here to evangelize a little.
This scenario is intended to be simplistic because we cannot saddle camels with to much of a load or take on the load of the other camels. Instead of being bogged down by demographics, cash flow, debt. structure,etc. let’s allow each camel to use their own expertise and determine what their camel needs to be ladened with.
I’m confident we can get a DD downtown when the time is right.
Cinfidence is what Youngstown needs.
Dreams, vision, and implementation equals renaissance.
Hi Ron, Just add in research and planning between vision and implementation, and I agree with you!
Make it great!
Ron – Rest assured I don’t take your comments personally. As for this dream graduating into a vision, I must kindly suggest that, at the moment, the opposite seems to me to be happening. A vision – an idea, as suggested by Tyler, is morphing into a daydream. The thread went from how do we get good coffee, pastries, and maybe breakfast downtown, to suddenly a discussion of bringing in a Dunkin Donuts franchise. So far, (and I’ve seen this sort of thing happen over and over) what I see is “Hey kids – let’s put on a show”. But unlike the old Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland movies, where the idea of a show magically transforms into a major production before the movie’s end – opening a business takes a great deal of research and planning. Just wanting business and development is not enough. All the enthusiasm in the world is not enough to sustain a business, if the market for its products or services has been ignored or misjudged.
Now, I am not declaring that a DD can’t or won’t come downtown. I am simply saying that there’s a lot of work and investment that needs to happen first. And, for all I know, perhaps someone is already in that process. Maybe the DD franchises for this area are sold out because someone has, indeed, already purchased the rights to put one downtown. I don’t know.
What I do know is that promotion, networking with local officials and evangelizing do little to help a business be profitable, if it has been started without the necessary market research, preparation, and capitalization to function.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe in promotion, networking, etc. They are vitally important, at the right stage of a business development. And if I may say, promotion seems to be your passion. This is a good thing! But your efforts will be wasted, if they come at the wrong stage of development.
Hi Tyler,
I just drove down Belmont Ave., and glanced over at the Plaza Donut shop, as I passed. They have a sign up, that announces they’re now serving flavored teas and full bodied (I think – I was moving quickly in the traffic) coffees. Perhaps this sign has been there for a while, and I’m only noticing it now, in light of this ongoing conversation. But if they’re serving better beverages on Belmont, perhaps they are downtown also? I don’t know when you last tried them downtown – is it worth another try?
It might be fun to schedule a downtown morning get-together and coffee tasting, with the people who read your blog. It could be a way to show downtown restaurants that there’s an interest in a better product. Perhaps several such meetings? Just a thought.
It is about time for the next Thinkers & Drinkers meetup
What is Thinkers & Drinkers?
What’s this Thinkers and Drinkers? You know I have ideas. When is the next meetup? I’ll be there.
Thinkers & Drinkers is a time when we get together over drinks to pose (and hopefully answer) questions about the area. I don’t know if we’ll fit one in before the New Year, but I’ll keep you posted if so. You’re also welcome to host one yourself. Let me know, and I’ll send you some ideas for how to organize it.
Yeah, lunch time and dinner time: not enough parking. I know there are plenty of places to eat lunch and dinner downtown, but I only get 1/2 an hour for lunch. An hour on Fridays. By the time I drive around the block(s) 2 or 3 times to get a parking space, it’s time to head back to work: thru traffic lights that are seriously in need of some timing from the city engineering dept. Breakfast, on the other hand, I could leave home early in the a.m., meet some coworkers or other downtown friends, and find parking that doesn’t compete with the hundreds of lawyers, bankers, businessmen who get 1,2,3-hour lunches.
We are in the process of getting an early morning service together. When we first opened we tried opening at 8am, but the combination of losing my mind from working 20hrs a day and the lack of early morning business was too much. Now that things are running a lot smoother and we have a new management staff it now makes it feasible. On Thursdays and Fridays we are now open at 8:30am for our coffee bar (now featuring Maggie’s Magic Muffins). Look for us to open at 7am mon-fri in the next two weeks or so.
So Here is our hours as of right now
mon-wed 11am-4am
thurs-fri 8:30-4am
sat-sun 5pm-4am
-jacob
http://www.lemongrovecafe.com
I an the agent who has the Legal Arts Bldg for sale. I have had interested parties looking. The bldg is to be sold with the restaurant. Many inquiries about just leasing the restaurant. Why not come forward and purchase someone. The restaurant can make a come back.
After reading this entire thread I am filled with some of my own thoughts/ideas/feelings around this issue.
-IDEAS-
I think the enthusiasm behind having an early morning Coffee/pastry shop that serves quality products is a fantastic idea, and deserves attention.
However I have to strongly disagree with this whole Dunkin Doughnuts proposal.
Somehow I don’t see the connection between DD and “fine quality” Coffee and baked goods. After living in new england for a couple of years my eyes were opened to what a “good cup of coffee” and danish actually means.
I’m also concerned about what actually goes into the products (baked goods) themselves. If anyone has the time they can go directly to the DD website and check out the nutritional info. You will find two very common ingredients:
High Fructose Corn Syrup
various Hydrogenated oils —> Trans Fats (which cause an unbelievable amount of health problem over time)
And last but not least just about all of their products (and ALL of their muffins) use bleached flour. and a quick lesson on bleached flour they use chlorine gas to “bleach” the flour. Which destroys much of the nutritional value of flour.
My point with this food issue is that if it’s a non franchise business there can be way more control on what goes into the products.
(like unbleached flour which tastes better) and the Shop has the ability to change with the people.
Example: There is a growing population of people who can’t eat wheat products. DD has absolutely NO wheat free baked goods at all. If you can accommodate some (certainly not all) common food limitations there is that much more business willing to spend a buck at your establishment.
Not to mention the “feel” of an actual Coffee/pastry shop is not achieved at all by a corporate franchise like DD. Theres nothing I can get at a DD that I couldn’t get at a convenience store or many gas stations. Many DD just pull their pastries out of a truck and warm them up for customers. Which isn’t inherently evil or anything but I know I would be more excited to spend my money in a place (and hang out with my friends or laptop) that had an interesting name, Fair trade coffee, and an inviting vibe to the the place.
A place where I knew I was supporting the uprising Renaissance of Youngstown
A place where the pastries are delicious and were MADE by someone I could see and talk to.
A place where the coffee is strong enough (as Margaret Bidinotto’s father used to say) to “dance on”.
If you want franchises you can get those in any of the surrounding towns. If time/effort/promotion/money are going to go into something like this why not turn it into another reason to come to downtown. instead of another step towards mediocrity & banality.
I accept that I may be a little to idealistic in this post. But I also feel that DD is shooting way below the mark on whats possible.
thanks for reading
A place where I knew I was supporting the uprising Renaissance of Youngstown:
the lemon grove’s main mission is to create a network, business, and organization which supports the two essential components of youngstown’s revitalization:economics and culture
A place where the pastries are delicious and were MADE by someone I could see and talk to:
my mother and the locally owned Tropea’s Fine Pastries and Maggie’s Magic Muffins make all our baked goods
A place where the coffee is strong enough (as Margaret Bidinotto’s father used to say) to “dance on”.
The fair trade, organic, and roasted in Cleveland: Timor Coffee is the strongest coffee we serve, but you can also get some shots of espresso in it if it still doesn’t do the trick!
Glad to hear Lemon Grove will be open at 7am mornings starting Monday 4/26.