City fails Wick Park 2010 test
Youngstown — Posted on November 17, 2009 at 8:20 pm[Edit 11/18: Be sure to visit the Shout Youngstown post on the reactionary art that grew up in response to the Penn Ave arsons.]
More than fifty interested residents from the Wick Park area and Youngstown’s north side attended a community meeting at Wick Park Pavilion with representatives from City Hall, the Youngstown Police Department and the Fire Department on Monday, November 9. The meeting lasted approximately 90 minutes, but only a few minutes were especially productive.
The meeting was billed as an “informational meeting,” and if you’ve ever attended such a community meeting in Youngstown, you’ll not be surprised at what happened. Representatives from the city talked about what they expect residents to do if they encounter problem properties or suspicious activities. Call them.
Meanwhile, several residents complained that all they do is call, and they don’t see any results for it. In the video below, 3rd Ward Councilman Jamael Tito Brown inserts himself into such a complaint, offering yet another number for residents to call. The resident responds that he hasn’t found past results from calling Tito any improvement.
There were some interesting learning moments. For example, the Police Department has an individual dedicated to scrap metal incident investigations. Also, an officer dispelled TV-induced myths about the usefulness of fingerprints in robbery investigations: “I’ve never solved a burglary ’cause of a fingerprint. Ever.”
The chief of YSU campus police also invited residents to call if they want, and campus police would assist where they could through some kind of turf-sharing agreement with YPD. Also, Bill D’Avignon shared a timeline for demolition of remaining blighted homes on Pennsylvania.
When I attended community organizer training in Columbus this summer, one of the aspects we covered was The Meeting. Planning a meeting between community stakeholders and public officials (or other private individuals or institutions in power) is a powerful opportunity to share your goals and concerns with the other party and gain a commitment to share those goals and address your concerns. You must, however, plan ahead.
Effective meetings require a representative from the group who speaks on its behalf. There must be discipline on the part of the rest of the group not to speak out of turn, lest any progress in negotiations be lost. Finally, there must be a clear request that’s being made and a tenacious pursuit of a commitment to meet that request or, at worst, to improve conditions relative to the request.
It was no surprise, then, to see Wick Park resident, community organizer and Youngstown mascot Phil Kidd stand up about seventy minutes into the meeting to finally make an “ask.”
Phil asked for prioritization for Wick Park properties in terms of stabilization funds and responsiveness. Bill D’Avignon quickly agreed that the City viewed Wick Park as a priority. Sharon Letson of Cityscape concluded by asking attendees to share their contact information to be included as future meetings are planned to organize residents to hold the city accountable to its prioritization of Wick Park.
That priority, it seems, isn’t shared by all of City Hall. Today, the carriage house behind the remains of 259 Park Avenue was destroyed by city bulldozers, despite what was thought to be a shared vision by neighborhood residents and the city to prioritize preservation for historic structures encircling Wick Park.
Is the streets department on the same page as planning? I recognize that, in order to be effective, the streets department can’t call up other departments before it moves a muscle. If we’re going to move quickly on tackling the many challenges that face the region, we’ll have to be nimble and exercise autonomy. However, one can reasonably expect that there be a shared understanding of areas of priority and preservation.
Was the priority of the carriage house’s preservation communicated throughout relevant city departments? If so, was it ignored? Does the streets department chafe at being told what it can and can’t touch and just exercise its muscle to demonstrate its independence?
It’s difficult to understand where the priorities are in terms of the 2010 plan. Yes, there are structures that need to be brought down. Historic structures, however, especially in priority districts such as Wick Park, should at least be subject to community discussion before they are compromised. We have lost another opportunity and suffered another blow to the future of Wick Park and, by extension, Youngstown.
Each piece of the puzzle at this point is critical, and the potential fallout from both the arsons and the city’s apparent carelessness, should not be underestimated.
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Tags: 2010, Politics, wickPark
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34 Comments
The carriage house should have remained however being vacant it is another arson target. But it begs the question…”Who is in charge”? Nonetheless, a tragedy to lose. Another piece of history lost.
If the street dept. said the carriage house is not sound and took it down, what makes it safe for any of the other BOARDED up HOMES
If the street dept said the carriage house was not sound, what makes it their right to tear it down, unless they were given the order to. What about the other homes around Wick Park that are BOARDED up. Does the street dept have the right to demolish them? We as a community need to keep on the City Government, I do not think they hear us at times. We need to stress upon the City CODE ENFORCEMENT AND GET OUT OF TOWN LANDLORDS REGISTER. There are many homes around Wick Park that are Boarded and why can we not get them sold? If the carriage house was not sound there are others around the Park I’m sure are not sound.
Donna – You all can’t get those boarded houses sold because they would be burned too. What the heck is with Youngstown anyway with this arson? My word!
the auditor’s web site shows no records as to who owns that property. what say the owner over the tearing down of the carriage house? standing alone, the carriage house, while historic and neat-looking, would have little usefulness in terms of housing. it would be difficult to convert to a loft or living space on its own. unless anyone could think of a way the carriage house would be utilized, i can see why it was torn down along with the remains of the home. half the homes on the north side have a so-called ‘carriage house,’ aka garage. most of the homes were built before there were cars on a large scale, so those buildings technically housed carts or carriages or whatever. my house is 100 years old. if it burned down, would everyone fight to save my garage?
Sarah,
There were a number of people at the meeting who were interested in the remains of the house and the carriage house. Some were thinking about creating a residence. Others saw the potential of a community garden and using the carriage house as a tool shed. Additionally, I think some were hoping to use the stone ruins of the house in the garden. (similar to what was done with some stone churches in the UK that were bombed in WWII.)
When I get some personal things in order, I hope to buy and restore a house in this neighborhood. Now, in addition to the possibility of burglary and arson, I have to worry about the city demolishing my house, too? I’m being lead by my heart, and this will still make me hesitate. How can we ever expect the average investor to consider restoring any of these homes? We can’t depend on the “more money than brains” crowd to bring back an entire neighborhood.
As a YSU student who lives in the neighborhood, I’m glad that we’ve managed to start forming a neighborhood discussion about these issues. Although I’m disappointed about the loss of the carriage house, I think it’s good that at least city officials and neighborhood residents have opened organized dialogue, even if there are some hiccups to work out. This needs to continue, but be coupled in the future with more organized action plans.
I think the most important thing we can do at the next neighborhood meeting on Monday is come up with an action plan to address neighborhood concerns; one that outlines what both city officials and neighborhood residents will do between now and the next meeting to resolve neighborhood concerns.
It’s got to be a two-way street, and I think attendance at the last meeting shows that enough interest exists to get the ball rolling. Sometimes the little things that neighborhood residents work together to accomplish can make as much difference as what city officials can do. And getting city officials to agree to take accomplish certain tasks within a given time frame couldn’t hurt, either.
We should have high expectations for city officials but we also have to be willing to work together as residents and as stakeholders to take action and do our part to resolve the issues our neighborhood. If neighborhood watch patrols will help deter arson in our neighborhood, then let’s put that to action. If cleaning up vacant properties will help improve the appearance of the neighborhood, let’s set a date and do it. A wise man once said we have to be what we want to see in the world, and I wholeheartedly agree with that.
We have a lot of potential to change our conditions and I think we’re about to finally realize that here in the Wick Park Neighborhood.
I have to say, I am torn on this issue. I do believe it was unnecessary to tear it down if there were ANY parties interest in saving it. Honestly- the city should commend those who wish to step up and do the work to save properties and make them appealing to the area. Although yes- the city gets rid of the “Blight” it costs nothing to hand the property over to someone else to invest in and do the work. So why not? They do that in Philadelphia all the time.
Now on to an additional point as well- few expressed on facebook their concern regarding Youngstown’s priorities and where the real concern should lie- in another torn down building, or with the crime. I live on the South Side and I’m just reading miles of crimes I don’t hear about on the news or in the paper and it honestly scares the #$%^ out of me sometimes. It’s just not cool (simply put).
Again, I don’t agree with it being torn down, and if this is the example of the fissure growing between the citizens and city hall, perhaps it will be best to find out what is on their agenda, why they aren’t listening to something as simple as saving a carriage house/garage and maybe that will benefit all- why is the crime seemingly getting worse, and why are they wasting resources and offending caring citizens over something as simple as a carriage house?
This is the email that was sent to City Hall:
“The carriage house at 259 Park Ave. was razed with city bulldozers this yesterday morning despite the city’s public commitment to preserve it until it was determined if an interim strategy could be developed for reuse. I called Bill D’Avignon who had no idea it was going to be torn down. Bill called the Street Dept. who stated that the structure was structurally unsound. The remainder of the structure (porch, pillars, foundation) of the house have also begun to be removed which was asked to be preserved (materials to be removed/stored for future community project work) for the same reason. The removal of remains of the structure is one thing and can be debated on its own merits, however, what is most troubling is the fact that no notification or communication was provided to the public (ie. any member of group who participated in last Monday’s meeting) despite a public commitment to assist with preservation of the very site in front of 50 people and the media only one week ago. They simply tore it down.
Separate from the brazenness of the action and the blatant public mistrust it brings with it, there is a more important question that now needs to be raised: how legitimate is the city’s commitment to assisting with protecting the remaining structures that immediately surround the park? We’re talking about a handful of key properties in a designated historic district, not an entire neighborhood. Either the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing in City Hall (insert reason here) or the City is just paying the community lip service. Either is unacceptable.
Many good members of the community are furious…and don’t be misled into thinking it’s simply about the demolition of a carriage house…or even Wick Park. It goes much deeper than that. A large part of it is about the growing disconnect between City Hall (both between departments and with the community) and where we stand in regards to making the fundamental decisions that need to be made in order to self correct (ex. landlord registration, code enforcement reform, strategic demolition policy, establishment of charter review commission for ward redistricting/consolidation/at-large City Council representation, etc.)…important components that should have been established by now. A much more detailed discussion is being circulated among community members but I’m hearing it on every side of the city in almost every neighborhood I work with.
In regards to the Wick Park situation, specifically, here is an example of what I’m talking about:
City fails Wick Park 2010 test (blog post)
I write this email as friend more so than as a professional and I issue it as a word of objective caution because I care about not only the city but about the people of this administration. However, there are some things that the community feels needs to change. Some are obvious, others aren’t and it would be a good idea to begin a dialogue about it with certain members of the community before we turn the calendar to 2010. To that end, I and others would certainly welcome the opportunity to assist in whatever is deemed appropriate.
In regards to Wick Park, there will be a meeting Monday 5:30pm @ Unitarian Church on Elm.”
P.S. A popular idea for the carriage house was to have it serve as a materials resource center for community based non-profits such has Neighborhood Improvement Corps (Community Tool Shed), Treez Please, Grow Youngstown and/or City Scape while creating a innovative community garden or landscape design utilizing the remains of the house or where the house stood. Renovations to the carriage house would have not been all that significant in order to carry out this mission. This repurposing of the vacant lot would have created asthetic, community and real property value where none now will exist. $300,000 will be dedicated to similar vacant lot repurposing efforts in the Idora neighborhood in 2010 by the newly formed Youngstown Neighborhood Development Corporation. It’s happening in other places in the city.
Increased demolition is certainly necessary city-wide, however, it is not community development strategy in and of itself (particularly in a defined historic district next to the most heavily utilized city park). You can’t demo your way out the problem.
Youngstown needs to think innovatively and foster creativity utilizing the vacant property it has or is handed. What will now be an open field could have been an opportunity to bring citizens from the North Side and/or across the city together in a creative way and flipped a tragic situation upside down. Other communities are not interested in how much demolition we can execute. They are interested in how we use vacancy to our advantage. This is what will define the transformation of post-industrial communities like Youngstown. Increased land fill debris, alone, will not.
O’ Youngstown , social action, too much social and no action.
Phil, I warned you about this. There are so many talented and bright people in our midst for this to be the status quo. Just at the Wick Park meetings, I bumped into what is the intelligensia of our community. Why does this happen, because we have leaders with zero track record and are there only for a paycheck. I salute Tyler, he is now coming out swinging. People are getting mad.
I have to say that Bill D’avignon is trying, and there is a disconnect with the various departments within the city. Where was Tito Brown, don’t we pay him? However, we are all at fault for looking towards the city to do all things. Now is the time that we start mobilizing on our own. I sound like a broken record, but this is exactly why I concentrated in Poland Village, we didn’t wait for the Village government, we said, “lead follow or get out of the way.” In this blog and in the relevant meetings, I outlined a proven method to secure the Van Sickle homes and no one listened, I even secured a donor to pay for the legal fees.
Although many of us in this blog are bright people, we pussy foot around and nothing gets done. I spent the day on Hubbard road, working on an aquaculture site next door to the Tod Engine, Rick Rowlands. Now here is an example of an innovator in our midst, I just met him, but I already know him by his “fruit”, his actions, his track record. We go to meetings and many stand up and self proclaim leadership, but no track record. We now have to be coy about it, if you are unqualified, you sit down.
If you look at our leaders, you will find one common factor, most of them are unqualified. This is why YTown is what it is today and no one can spin this another way, look around. I’ve been here since 1996 and it is getting worse.
Tomorrow I have a meeting with Rev. Nevel, my company manages their land holdings, they want to be productive with their assets. If you want support from them, I will bring it up. I don’t know about another meeting this monday, to be truthful, I think I’m wasting my time. And Phil, you never returned my phone call.
Instead of divisiveness, let’s find ways to come together.
Ron:
The ask of the city was to establish the area as a priority, have them take possession and clear up the tax liens on the carriage house, and turn them over to the proper end user (private investment, non-profit, etc). This was YOUR plan that we were adopting. The city, instead, tore it down Monday. You should be more upset than anyone.
P.S. I like Rick, but he also thinks the carriage house was a “garage” and doesn’t see an issue with this situation. Read the thread below:
http://mahoningvalley.info/forum/index.php?topic=7204.msg21135#msg21135
You’re right about the call. I do apologize. I have a number of calls to return regarding Wick Park. You’re is one and we can discuss in more detail then.
Two down two more to go!
No more dancing around, of all the post, no one was qualified to determine that the carriage house was structurally unsound except me, that’s right, I physically moved 52 structures, I moved all the houses on route 60 in PA. and route 22 in Steubenville. I am qualified and the carriage house was sound even if it wore coveralls period.
Now, If we all really want to save and put action together to get the other two Van Sickle structures saved and into the hands of the free market, we do what can be done NOW.
1. Herb Soss is on the board of the NSCC, I spoke to him about getting the old group together, they are a nonprofit. They can recieve the tax certs. from ATF,Optimum and Cintina and I will connect with them, I know them.
2. There is a donor who will lend the $2K to forfeit the Van Sickle properties, this action will clear the title. Atty. Alden Chevlen is the most experienced lawyer in this process, he agrees to do it.
3. The group of properties held by the NSCC can be cleared this way also and needs to be done simultaneously.
4. All these properties once cleared will be offered to the market for less than $500 each, no one has this offer available and the market will be there as an end user.
We either do this, or we can burn or buldoze our way to a smaller village.
So what is the hold up if this is so simple, Ron?
Phil,
I do not believe another meeting will produce anything. We need to get the old NSCC together fast and proceed with forfeiting. Let’s get an emergency meeting with them and implement what I have outlined and is proven, if during the first meeting we followed thru, the carriage house would still be a relic.
You are right, I am mad as hell but we have to move now on the remaining mansions and get the NSCC onto the most expedient path to clear their liens and place the houses on the free market. Trust the free market, no one offers houses near the university for $500 each and this will stimulate solid investors.
Tearing down the carriage house at 259 Park Avenue was a blunder,
any way you look at it. As others have already stated, it was
a carriage house – NOT a garage. It was a historic structure,
in a historic district. As such, there may have been grant money
available to help fix it up and put it to use for the public good.
Turning the property into a neighborhood garden, etc, would only
have added to the park across the street – not taken away from it.
I saw the carriage house with my own two eyes – it was far from
being beyond repair, and was in much better shape [structurally] than
many other structures around the Wick Park area.
Would it have lasted a couple more months until a plan could be
developed for its re-use? Well, it stood for about a hundred
years without a problem – so I tend to think that a couple more
months would not have caved the place in.
The ridge of the roof had remarkably little sag in it for a structure
of its age, the outside walls did not have any large holes, etc in
them. Because it was designed and built as an “out building”, no
heat or water service was needed – or required – inside it. If the
place was a little shaky here or there, a couple of well placed
barn beams would certainly have rendered it stable in the near term.
Someone could have taken some used lumber from another demolition site
to brace the building temporarily – without spending any real money
in the process.
The street department should not have the autonomy to raze any
structure without first receiving a demolition order from the
building and demolitions department. It is not the job of the street
deparment to decide what goes and what stays, but rather to do the
work that it is ordered to do.
There are people who own property near Wick park who are trying
their best to repair, rehabilitate and restore some of these
historic structures.
I own four properties in the Wick Park neighborhood, and have been
working very hard [albeit slowly, due to constraints on my time, my
finances, etc] to rehabilitate them, restore them, bring them
completely up to code, and eventually get people to come into the
neighborhood and live in them again.
All but one of these properties were vacant, boarded up, off the
public utilities grids, and nearly obscured by weeds and trash, etc.
when I first bought them. After almost four years of hard work, one
of them is nearly complete and will probably be returned to occupancy
before fall of 2010.
When this property begins to produce revenue, it will provide the
means to renovate the next one, and so on. I’ve heard the complaints
that others have about out-of-town landlords, and for the most part
they ARE valid complaints – but not all of us who own property in
Youngstown and live elsewhere are slumlords.
The three properties that are not yet occupied have been rendered
structurally stable, secured from the weather and vandals, and two
of the four now have brand new roofs on them.
All but one of these properties is now lit, inside and out – day
and night. All of these properties are now kept clean and tidy
outside – the grass gets cut, the walks stay cleared, trash is
removed, etc.
One of these properties is already occupied – and has already had
repairs done to it, including cosmetic improvements and a new paint
job. I commute to and from this city from almost three hundred miles
away – and stay for weeks at a time – JUST to work on these properties
here in the Wick Park Historic District, and towards my plan of returning to Youngstown some day when I retire.
I have already invested more than one quarter of a million dollars
worth of improvements into these properties over the past four years
or so … with more to come as I am able to raise the capital to
do the rehab work.
The city and I have clashed a couple times over these properties
because of graffiti sprayed on one of them, or because the exterior
paint was peeling on another – all the while a house or building down
the street or around the corner was LITERALLY FALLING DOWN, with nothing at all being done about it.
It seems at times as though the city is willing to hound property
owners when it suits them, but that it is not willing to offer any
help to those of us who are legitimately trying to make the area
a better place by fixing these structures up on their own.
Like Rick Rowlands [ie: Tod Engine Museum ] I have not asked for one
red penny’s worth of help from either the city or the county – I am doing most of the work with my own two hands, and ALL of the work
with my own money.
I love the Wick Park neighborhood – I grew up there. To see the Van
Sickle properties vacant and boarded up, waiting to fall victim to
house strippers and arsonists, literally sickens me to the core.
The house at 259 Park Avenue would never have been burned, had it
been properly secured with adequate barriers in the first place.
Now it’s gone forever and cannot be replaced. Tearing down the
carriage house behind it only adds insult to injury, and further
damages the credibility of the current administration at City Hall.
To see the city sit idly by and do nothing, when there ARE ways and
means of taking control of these historic treasures and then finding
new investors/owners that will buy them and fix them, it totally
disgusts me.
Phil Kidd, Jaime, and many others tried their best to save the
house at 259 Park Avenue LONG before it burned – what was lacking,
and ultimately doomed the mansion to extinction, was a modicum
of cooperation (and common sense) from the City of Youngstown.
This is the paradox of blight and extreme devaluation of real estate in Youngstown, Ohio, where homes are valued lower than third world countries. And worse yet, property here has become a liability with even negative value, a phenomenon never seen before.
What Allen says is a true story on why this Phenomenon exist in YTown. The seed being the non adherence to the old landlord tenancy laws of our fathers. Here you have an investor who plows his hard earned dollars into RE investments. He brings a structure up to code and finds a renter (majority of YTown citizens), they enter into a lease with the agreement that the house is up to code. At that point, the tenant has “possession”, no one can evict him except a judge. The owner cannot enter the premises except during an emergency. The owner is only responsible for “wear and tear” and capital improvements, not damage.
In Ytown, if during the “possession” of the tenant, the windows are broken, the doors are ripped out and the walls are smashed in, the landlord is brought to the housing court, not the tenant. So what has evolved is tenants knowing that they bear no responsibility even if they stop paying rent.
Housing code violations are criminal, so why would anyone want to invest in property under this scenario? End result market for RE investment flees and blight rushes in. The argument against this reality is invalid and scapegoating landlords is a myth and has been detrimental to our community. Not to say there are not slumlords, but investors value their assets. Look at section 8 housing, it has worked for a long time with very little exceptions, a tenant looses their rent subsidy if in their possession the dwelling was abused. When YTown was prosperous, there were renters, many of them, but the government adhered to the landlord tenancy laws, is this phenomenon because most of the voters in YTown are tenants?
Why not follow Ron’s lead and lets get together and save the other two VanSickle mansions. Lets not talk anymore, lets get it done. If the NSCC will take ownership of the two houses, I will volunteer my services to seal them up for winter, and I think there are enough of us to keep an eye on both properties until we figure out what to do with them. Turn your anger into positive action, and for crying out loud don’t ask the City for any help. We can do this ourselves.
I once was a so called “preservation activist”, back when the old Mahoning Valley Preservation Club was around. We spent quite a bit of time talking, meeting, talking and meeting, but in the end nothing of any significance came out of the group. Then I went off on my own and built what is out on Hubbard Road. Guess how many meetings were required to build it? Not a single one. I know what needs to be done and am doing it. Everyone else seems to have a need to meet and talk ad infinitum, but not many are willing to take the bold steps to get anything done.
But we must chose our battles carefully. As Allan can attest, saving and rehabilitating a structure is costly and time consuming. I would rather us spend our extremely limited capital saving an architecturally significant mansion than saving a vernacular carriage house. Lets shoot for the high value targets fellas. Those mansions are extremely hard to replicate, but we can build carriage houses all day long.
Who will step forward to lead the way?
Hey Rick,
I wanna join your club, the Doers club. Kind of like the whiskey, Dewers.
Yea, only people who actually move their limbs can join, no mouth movement allowed. Also, innovation is a must. To join, you had to have produced something tangible. I wanna be the worker, or I’ll operate the crane, you know I can run the hoe.
Rick:
It appears that you and Ron have the plan. We “talkers” are ready to follow the Doers Club lead. So, lead the way. We’ll do whatever is necessary. At the end of the day, it’s about saving these houses so let’s get to it. I’m all in. The folks that are intersted in this effort are willing to support/invest will be at the meeting at the Unitarian Church on Monday @ 5:30pm. Please attend and provide us a good action plan so we can get to it. Thanks for reaching out.
PK
Phil,
I’m in, so that makes three of us. By sunday, I will e-mail you the steps we need to take for the tax cert. forfeiture. Are we going to request the city landbank to secure the certs? Or have they agreed to this already? I will see also if Atty. Chevlen can be present to answer any questions.
Thank you for putting all of this together, I was working today with Rick and he seems very pumped to move on saving the mansions, he has a lot of mechanical skills and would be a plus to this preservation.
You are a very good speaker, and in light of our brainstorming session, can you explain the scenario to the people, I will be willing to explain also, but I seem to piss people off when I talk. You seem to understand the legal process from our conversation.
I’m also in. As a neighborhood resident, YSU Student, and member of Student Government, I have invested interest in making sure that this neighborhood is safe and sustainable for students. Plus, I think some of those houses you’re talking about have great potential for student housing opportunities.
Please keep me posted on this discussion and feel free to e-mail me at jndaugherty@student.ysu.edu .
I’d be glad to help in any way that I can. Now is certainly the time to act.
Securing Property Thru Tax Certificate Forfeiture
In real estate, many mortgagees prefer amortized payments in the form of a PITI (principle, interest, taxes, and insurance), to insure their security, their collateral. Taxes trump all liens and the mortgagee is aware that unpaid, they supersede the mortgage. If taxes accumulate, it will reduce the secured debt of a mortgagee resulting in the same debt becoming unsecured depending on the value of the collateral.
The sale of tax certificates by Mahoning county is a recent practice and was accompanied by a hybrid in foreclosure, forfeiture. In laymans terms, the process begins with the conveyance of tax certs. at a discounted price. A real estate lawyer is needed to begin the forfeiture complaint. The necessary part of the lawyer’s filings are:
1. Auditors recording of tax certificates
2. PJR (preliminary judicial title report)
3. Appraiser’s statement of taxes being greater than value of property
4. Notification to defendant lien holders if any
5. Legal news publication in the event of no service
Once the complaint proceeds through the county court system and defendants do not respond, the property is forfeited if the tax debt is greater than the value of the property. In the event that the taxes are not greater than the value, the property must be auctioned at a sheriff sale and the tax lien is still superior.
There are two ways investors approach tax cert. investing, one is for the gain between the discounted price plus the 18% allowed interest, and the face value of the cert. The other is taking title to the property.
The owner of the property can only redeem the property by satisfying the face value, interest, legal fees and cost.
A side note here is that taxes are legally descibed as in rem and not in persona, meaning that the lien is not personal but is against the property.
If Wick Park is dying because of lack of City planning, concern, organization, then why not organize a large funeral for the Park. Take a lot of people down to City Hall dressed in black (with local press invited) to ask the mayor and City Council members to act as pallbearers for Wick Park’s funeral. Make sure you have a date for that funeral.
Or with an equally large crowd, present the offending official with a violin, recognition of the fact that Wick Park is burning down.
As long as they throw that “just call if you have a problem” crap at you then nothing will get done. Get them looking very weak in the local press and then you’ll get some action. Good luck!
Ben, If you lead I will follow!
Infact, I will provide a PA system for the revolution!
And, my store will provide the snacks.
Call me if this isn’t just bloviating, 330 707 9688
I am furious about the city’s failure to honor their agreement to the citizens of the northside. This is about far more than a carriage house being taken down, this is about the city’s responsiveness to its citizens. Furthermore, I live in the Wick Park neighborhood and daily travel by numerous burned out structures, many which have been standing for far more than a year. I don’t see the city coming in to tear them down right away even though they pose are far more dangerous risk to citizens and children than the carriage house did. So what was the city’s hurry to demo the carriage house? Why couldn’t they wait a month or so? I feel that it was a stick in the eye to all the stakeholders in this community who actually care about their city and their neighborhood. To compound my anger about this, council has decided to not permit Steve Novotny the writer of the deconstuction grant to do the work for the grant that he wrote because council thinks the job should go to someone who was previously laid off. Are they morons or what? This young man just brought the city money that he acquired on his own, and council is going to say no – really? (see today’s Vindy for more details) Generally, I prefer to work with the administration, however, my patience is running thin, and I am no longer so inclined to do so.
I live in Philadelphia but love to keep up on the news from hometown Youngstown. In the 1990’s I was a block captain in Phila and a leader in Philadelphia Interfaith Action. We learned very early that townhall meetings lead nowhere. Officialdom finds it easy to hear people vent and grandstand.
Large, well organized public actions with a list of specific demands presented in a public place with press can often get officals to respond. Having a citywide organization that crosses racial and class lines is also invaluable. If Youngstown officials feel that it’s only Wick Park neighbors who are disgruntled then your chances of getting things done, I would say, are slim. Are other communities in Youngstowwn having the same problems with their local parks? Now there’s a lever that could move City Hall.
It’s also important, as someone above mentioned, that the group be disciplined and speak with one voice.
We chased Mayor Rendell with a fiddle to highlight our demand to replace his do nothing police commissioner. “Mayor fiddles while Phila burns.”
We won a new commissioner, John Timmoney, one of the best.
We deposited bricks outside Mayor Street office, bricks from collapsing buildings, to pressure him to clean, seal, and demolish vaccant properties. We won NTI, Neighborhood Transformation Initiative that cleared and cleaned hundreds of blocks in the City. These cleared blocks are sprouting new home construction (until the present downturn.)
Best of luck.
Ron’s explanation of tax lien sale and forfeiture is one of the best succinct explanations I have seen. Let’s do it!
Debra, I am humbled that you an officer of the court has blessed my layperson’s interpretation.
“The street department should not have the autonomy to raze any
structure without first receiving a demolition order from the
building and demolitions department. It is not the job of the street
deparment to decide what goes and what stays, but rather to do the
work that it is ordered to do.”
Good point, Alan.
What is the YSU historic preservation department’s level of involvement in helping to save the wonderful pieces of architecture that are sitting in ruin all over the city? Can/are state and national preservation forces paying attention/getting involved?
Hi Mark:
The local historical commission will be involved. They are currently working on the passage of a historic landmark ordinance that require certain criteria be met before the structues can be demolished, etc. Also, The Cleveland Restoration Society will came to view the situation and they were floored. They will be submitting an article to the National Trust as well as assist in looking to find some additional funding options (should and end user be found).
It’s a few more pieces, however, we need to get these titels cleared an the properties in hands of a good investor.